Have you ever had a bad experience with a creative freelancer?
You know, the kind that makes you blow the dust off your Photoshop 3 CDs or pick up a copy of Web Sites for Dummies?
Maybe you needed some web design done, or a brochure laid out, a paragraph of copy written, or even some illustration. You were excited about the project but either the result blew chunks or just working with the person was hell. Maybe you spent a lot of money on something you can’t use.
Whatever it was, I’ll bet it made you want to kick something really hard. Or scream. Or eat a gallon of Soy Dream all by yourself, huddled in a dark corner.
For this post, I’m going to stop myself from spewing forth wisdom and just listen to you. I would really like to hear about your experiences hiring and working with creative people. What went wrong? Why do you think it turned out badly? How was the situation left (or resolved)?
I invite you to tell your story in the comments. If you’d like to use a pseudonym, go for it.
The only rules I have about this are:
- Do NOT mention the name of the person or company. We’re not out to bash anyone here. No public lashings.
- I can’t think of any other rules. Except to repeat rule number 1.
I will not censor comments unless they’re off-topic or mention names. This is your chance to vent. I want to hear.
Well Sparky, I can't offer a client perspective, but I do think it's important for us to listen to fears that people have on this subject. Good for you for bringing it into the light instead of pretending that these things don't happen.
Well Sparky, I can't offer a client perspective, but I do think it's important for us to listen to fears that people have on this subject. Good for you for bringing it into the light instead of pretending that these things don't happen.
Well Sparky, I can't offer a client perspective, but I do think it's important for us to listen to fears that people have on this subject. Good for you for bringing it into the light instead of pretending that these things don't happen.
Unfortunately I'm no client either…your article caught me off guard actually. The majority of clients I've worked with (ever) wouldn't ever comment on a blog, they are typically 5 years behind in any sort of technology or internet sense…although an awesome thought…getting their feedback that is…I'd be interested on what percentage of clients actually subscribe to blogs or newsites that aren't big business controlled (WJS/Times). Hope to see some pop up here and prove me wrong! Great idea.
Unfortunately I'm no client either…your article caught me off guard actually. The majority of clients I've worked with (ever) wouldn't ever comment on a blog, they are typically 5 years behind in any sort of technology or internet sense…although an awesome thought…getting their feedback that is…I'd be interested on what percentage of clients actually subscribe to blogs or newsites that aren't big business controlled (WJS/Times). Hope to see some pop up here and prove me wrong! Great idea.
I know, I may be on a fool's errand here. There are only handful of my own clients who comment on blogs.
Before I posted this I wondered “Really. Who has the time to kvetch?”
Then I remembered all those WSJ, Amazon, Apple, and Huffington forums/blogs/op-eds.
Apparently, the entire free world has time to vent their frustrations, especially when they can be anonymous.
Unlike those big guys and much like Frasier Crane… I'm listening.
Here's hoping.
Unfortunately I'm no client either…your article caught me off guard actually. The majority of clients I've worked with (ever) wouldn't ever comment on a blog, they are typically 5 years behind in any sort of technology or internet sense…although an awesome thought…getting their feedback that is…I'd be interested on what percentage of clients actually subscribe to blogs or newsites that aren't big business controlled (WJS/Times). Hope to see some pop up here and prove me wrong! Great idea.
Confession Time: I've *been* the bad creative freelancer.
This happens when a client has bad ideas and demands that I execute them because after all, they're paying.
I can only push back on bad input so much before I decide “screw it, I want this project off my plate so I'm going to do bad work just to shut the client up and get this over with.”
The messed up thing is that the client is happy, but I'm not, and then I'll end up with something I don't want in my portfolio.
Not sure how to avoid this except charge more and charge up front (the more you charge the more authoritative you feel to clients) and screen clients for “fit”.
Confession Time: I've *been* the bad creative freelancer.
This happens when a client has bad ideas and demands that I execute them because after all, they're paying.
I can only push back on bad input so much before I decide “screw it, I want this project off my plate so I'm going to do bad work just to shut the client up and get this over with.”
The messed up thing is that the client is happy, but I'm not, and then I'll end up with something I don't want in my portfolio.
Not sure how to avoid this except charge more and charge up front (the more you charge the more authoritative you feel to clients) and screen clients for “fit”.
I don't know if that qualifies as being a bad freelancer. You fought for your expertise on the matter, and they rejected it. It's always good if you can help them see the light, but sometimes you can't and you just have to give 'em what they asked for.
I need to let it go instead of internalizing the frustration.
Which is hard, so what I need to do is just have opinions for a living and let people take it or leave it. For me it's the implementing stuff I know is bad that makes me crazy.
Nathan, I hear you. I've been on the receiving end of that bad input, too (and I have the crappy portfolio pieces to prove it). I've only recently figured out that I get to choose my clients and not the other way around (well, we choose each other but that's another subject). It's a nice place to be.
Still, that's exactly the kind of stuff I'm hoping to hear about from the people who have had bad experiences. I want to know their thought processes. I want a broad spectrum of experience. I want to know what's a really big deal and what doesn't matter much.
I had a potential client tell me once, “Your prices are kind of high, and besides – we don't need that level of quality.”
What?!? It's those kind of comments that get me insanely curious. What kind of discussions must take place in those businesses? When the thing comes out crappy, is that… okay? It's acceptable because the price was so low?
I'm a bit of a sociology bug. I like to pose these questions because I like to think about them myself. I wonder about this stuff. Some people build model railroads.
Maybe there's no great solution to these issues (except the acceptance that they exist), but I wonder what makes people tick.
My all time favorite avoid-this-client tell is “I'd be happy to pay you for your work…”
Gee, ya think?
That's why it's vital to have your prices and how you do business up front to help prescreen clients. Of course I've been meaning to get around to this on my own stuff. Cobbler's kid has no shoes and all that. :-)
Confession Time: I've *been* the bad creative freelancer.
This happens when a client has bad ideas and demands that I execute them because after all, they're paying.
I can only push back on bad input so much before I decide “screw it, I want this project off my plate so I'm going to do bad work just to shut the client up and get this over with.”
The messed up thing is that the client is happy, but I'm not, and then I'll end up with something I don't want in my portfolio.
Not sure how to avoid this except charge more and charge up front (the more you charge the more authoritative you feel to clients) and screen clients for “fit”.
I don't know if that qualifies as being a bad freelancer. You fought for your expertise on the matter, and they rejected it. It's always good if you can help them see the light, but sometimes you can't and you just have to give 'em what they asked for.
I don't know if that qualifies as being a bad freelancer. You fought for your expertise on the matter, and they rejected it. It's always good if you can help them see the light, but sometimes you can't and you just have to give 'em what they asked for.
I know, I may be on a fool's errand here. There are only handful of my own clients who comment on blogs.
Before I posted this I wondered “Really. Who has the time to kvetch?”
Then I remembered all those WSJ, Amazon, Apple, and Huffington forums/blogs/op-eds.
Apparently, the entire free world has time to vent their frustrations, especially when they can be anonymous.
Unlike those big guys and much like Frasier Crane… I'm listening.
Here's hoping.
I know, I may be on a fool's errand here. There are only handful of my own clients who comment on blogs.
Before I posted this I wondered “Really. Who has the time to kvetch?”
Then I remembered all those WSJ, Amazon, Apple, and Huffington forums/blogs/op-eds.
Apparently, the entire free world has time to vent their frustrations, especially when they can be anonymous.
Unlike those big guys and much like Frasier Crane… I'm listening.
Here's hoping.
Nathan, I hear you. I've been on the receiving end of that bad input, too (and I have the crappy portfolio pieces to prove it). I've only recently figured out that I get to choose my clients and not the other way around. It's a nice place to be.
Still, that's exactly the kind of stuff I'm hoping to hear about from then people who have had bad experiences. I want to know their thought processes. I want a broad spectrum of experience. I want to know what's a really big deal and what doesn't matter much.
I had a potential client tell me once, “Your prices are kind of high, and besides – we don't need that level of quality.”
What?!? It's those kind of comments that get me insanely curious. What kind of discussions must take place in those businesses? When the thing comes out crappy, is that… okay? It's acceptable because the price was so low?
I'm a bit of a sociology bug. I like to pose these questions because I like to think about them myself. I wonder about this stuff. Some people build model railroads.
Maybe there's no great solution to these issues (except the acceptance that they exist), but I wonder what makes people tick.
Nathan, I hear you. I've been on the receiving end of that bad input, too (and I have the crappy portfolio pieces to prove it). I've only recently figured out that I get to choose my clients and not the other way around (well, we choose each other but that's another subject). It's a nice place to be.
Still, that's exactly the kind of stuff I'm hoping to hear about from the people who have had bad experiences. I want to know their thought processes. I want a broad spectrum of experience. I want to know what's a really big deal and what doesn't matter much.
I had a potential client tell me once, “Your prices are kind of high, and besides – we don't need that level of quality.”
What?!? It's those kind of comments that get me insanely curious. What kind of discussions must take place in those businesses? When the thing comes out crappy, is that… okay? It's acceptable because the price was so low?
I'm a bit of a sociology bug. I like to pose these questions because I like to think about them myself. I wonder about this stuff. Some people build model railroads.
Maybe there's no great solution to these issues (except the acceptance that they exist), but I wonder what makes people tick.
My all time favorite avoid-this-client tell is “I'd be happy to pay you for your work…”
Gee, ya think?
That's why it's vital to have your prices and how you do business up front to help prescreen clients. Of course I've been meaning to get around to this on my own stuff. Cobbler's kid has no shoes and all that. :-)
My all time favorite avoid-this-client tell is “I'd be happy to pay you for your work…”
Gee, ya think?
That's why it's vital to have your prices and how you do business up front to help prescreen clients. Of course I've been meaning to get around to this on my own stuff. Cobbler's kid has no shoes and all that. :-)
I need to let it go instead of internalizing the frustration.
Which is hard, so what I need to do is just have opinions for a living and let people take it or leave it. For me it's the implementing stuff I know is bad that makes me crazy.
I need to let it go instead of internalizing the frustration.
Which is hard, so what I need to do is just have opinions for a living and let people take it or leave it. For me it's the implementing stuff I know is bad that makes me crazy.
Oh, I'm obviously not a client either, but I'd really love to hear what clients might say.
The most common complaint I've heard from clients about designers revolve around reliability issues. As in, the designers took too long to do requested work or just up and disappeared for no “apparent” reason.
Oh, I'm obviously not a client either, but I'd really love to hear what clients might say.
The most common complaint I've heard from clients about designers revolve around reliability issues. As in, the designers took too long to do requested work or just up and disappeared for no “apparent” reason.
Oh, I'm obviously not a client either, but I'd really love to hear what clients might say.
The most common complaint I've heard from clients about designers revolve around reliability issues. As in, the designers took too long to do requested work or just up and disappeared for no “apparent” reason.
I am a photographer having a website built and running into extra charges in the middle of the project and a designer unwilling to see any fault and not being flexible.We sent a RFP of what we wanted, and he did not put on a line item in their contract ” the ability to change photos and promotions out on the main page.” , so we thought he was simply going to design it in this fashion.Not knowing anything about design , we only assumed building the inside of the guts to do this feature was being done and not a line item.Such as nails are not put into a blueprint .But all he can say is well ” you saw the proposal and it is not there in the content management system so you have to pay more” .We understand his black and white approach, but for a designer not to put this into the contract so we can see the cost , but bring up the cost in the middle of the design it crazy.I feel like it was his short coming and why do I have to pay for it, and why is he profiting of his mistake.The second thing is we had a gift card in their contract, told him there was no storefronts, but all online.So he has in our contract ” several pages for the checkout” , and now he saying we never brought up the fact that we wanted the card redeemed through the site, and that he is not a “Business Analyst ” , and to add that to the checkout will be 600.00 more.Again , as a designer should he not of had the vision of the concept, or at least brought up the different options for a cart or redeeming the cards BEFORE the design started.With their snotty attitude and not taking any responsibility , mixed with paying them a huge amount of money , and their short comings now costing us more money , we are simply frustrated and trying to negotiate.Any help would be huge.
Thanks,
Mark
I am a photographer having a website built and running into extra charges in the middle of the project and a designer unwilling to see any fault and not being flexible.We sent a RFP of what we wanted, and he did not put on a line item in their contract ” the ability to change photos and promotions out on the main page.” , so we thought he was simply going to design it in this fashion.Not knowing anything about design , we only assumed building the inside of the guts to do this feature was being done and not a line item.Such as nails are not put into a blueprint of a house .But all he can say is well ” you saw the proposal and it is not there in the content management system so you have to pay more” .We understand his black and white approach, but for a designer not to put this into the contract so we can see the cost , but bring up the cost in the middle of the design it crazy.I feel like it was his short coming and why do I have to pay for it, and why is he profiting of his mistake.The second thing is we had a gift card in their contract, told him there was no storefronts, but all online.So he has in our contract ” several pages for the checkout” , and now he saying we never brought up the fact that we wanted the card redeemed through the site, and that he is not a “Business Analyst ” , and to add that to the checkout will be 600.00 more.Again , as a designer should he not of had the vision of the concept, or at least brought up the different options for a cart or redeeming the cards BEFORE the design started.With their snotty attitude and not taking any responsibility , mixed with paying them a huge amount of money , and their short comings now costing us more money , we are simply frustrated and trying to negotiate.Any help would be huge.
Thanks,
Mark
I am a photographer having a website built and running into extra charges in the middle of the project and a designer unwilling to see any fault and not being flexible.We sent a RFP of what we wanted, and he did not put on a line item in their contract ” the ability to change photos and promotions out on the main page.” , so we thought he was simply going to design it in this fashion.Not knowing anything about design , we only assumed building the inside of the guts to do this feature was being done and not a line item.Such as nails are not put into a blueprint of a house .But all he can say is well ” you saw the proposal and it is not there in the content management system so you have to pay more” .We understand his black and white approach, but for a designer not to put this into the contract so we can see the cost , but bring up the cost in the middle of the design it crazy.I feel like it was his short coming and why do I have to pay for it, and why is he profiting of his mistake.The second thing is we had a gift card in their contract, told him there was no storefronts, but all online.So he has in our contract ” several pages for the checkout” , and now he saying we never brought up the fact that we wanted the card redeemed through the site, and that he is not a “Business Analyst ” , and to add that to the checkout will be 600.00 more.Again , as a designer should he not of had the vision of the concept, or at least brought up the different options for a cart or redeeming the cards BEFORE the design started.With their snotty attitude and not taking any responsibility , mixed with paying them a huge amount of money , and their short comings now costing us more money , we are simply frustrated and trying to negotiate.Any help would be huge.
Thanks,
Mark